Episode 9: Rewilding Masculinity with Dr. Martha McCaughey

Popular culture likes to tell us that modern men are still just cavemen that masquerade in suits. That they are really just big dumb brutes, bent on domination to get their way. Deep down, their urges for violence (and sexual violence in particular) are simply part of their biology. Where does this mythology come from and why? What does rewilding masculinity look like–and where do we even start? In this episode I interview Dr. Martha McCaughey, professor of sociology at Appalachian State University and author of the book “The Caveman Mystique” as we explore these concepts in depth.

Dr. McCaughey’s Books

The Caveman Mystique

Real Knock Outs


The Feminine Mystique

The Egalitarians: Human and Chimpanzee

Why everything you know about wolf packs is wrong

Exploring Prehistory: How Archaeology Reveals Our Past

Support the show

Bone Tools Talk

If not for COVID-19, I’d be sitting in Jim Rigg’s wikiup at Ark Park and educating the masses about bone tools (among other related rants) by day and expanding my mind with the help of some very friendly fungi by night–at the Oregon Country Fair. Sadly, instead I made this video of my bone talk for people who are missing country fair. 🖤😢🦴👨‍🏫🌄🍄😲 Enjoy!

Episode 8: Engaging With the History and People of Your Place with Dr. David Lewis

In this episode I speak with Dr. David Lewis, historian, anthropology professor and member of the Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde. We talk about the importance of learning the history of your place, what it’s like being a bridge for cultures, ideas for being an ally, among many other interesting things.

Dr. David Lewis Website:

David’s Facebook

Books for Further Study

Native Science

Decolonizing Methodology

Native Americans and the Environment

What Kinship Is-And Is Not – Marshall Sahlins

Re-imagining Overpopulation

“Recognizing possibilities of other kinds of intimacies–not focused on biological reproduction and making population, but caretaking precious kin that comes to us in diverse ways–is an important step to unsettling settler sex and family.” – Kim TallBear

Thomas Malthus was a racist, and his ideas around “population” growth have long been challenged, particularly by the left. Sadly, the left continues to conflate his racism, problematic stances, and miscalculations with the discussion of the ever-growing number of humans on the planet in general itself. In many circles, the mere mention that there are too many humans is met with accusations of ecofascism. It was with great pleasure that my friends at Queer Nature recommended to me the book Making Kin Not Population, a collection of essays from feminist scholars attacking these very issues.

The number of human bodies existing at any given moment has been increasing exponentially ever since the “Neolithic Demographic Transition.” Essentially some societies began to farm for the majority of their subsistence and–for many complex reasons–this type of full-time agriculture causes populations to dramatically increase beyond the bounds of what some have deemed the “carrying capacity” of a particular ecosystem. While it may be a relative symptom of the complexities of farming, this growth is perhaps the biggest reflection of the sixth extinction: agricultural societies have been converting diverse biomass into human mass for 10,000 years. This is not sustainable. There will be a population decline, as Malthus predicted. Hopefully not as he would have planned it.

Making Kin Not Population is a great lift-off point to rethinking the discussion around so-called “population” growth. Beginning with discussing the problematic aspects and origins of the very concept of “population” as an inhumane generalization that reduces individuals within a complex system to a number on a graph. The term “population” doesn’t represent the actual make-up of those populations, or even the impact of populations-within-populations. While the “population” of India is much larger than the United States, the “population” of the United States contributes much more to the consumption that is fueling climate change. You can’t simply say “population” without integrating these complexities.

The left avoids this conversation because it tends towards discussions of “population control.” Ironically, the most surprising thing I learned in Making Kin was that racist population control is already a deeply intrinsic practice within state-level societies. Rather than talk about de-humanized people on a graph, the concept of “population” must be dismantled and intertwined with “reproductive politics” and “reproductive justice.” I can’t think of a better response to the claims of fascism, than this.

When the left casts the dark shadow of Malthus over the mere discussion of this topic, it does more harm than good. As Jason Godesky recently pointed out in his essay “Overpopulation,” the population decline is inevitable. What isn’t inevitable is how we approach it. By refusing to discuss it, the left inadvertently leaves the inevitable in the imaginations of the very fascists they claim to be fighting against.

The main point of Making Kin however, aside from deconstructing the ideas around population, is to inspire people to imagine relationships beyond the human reproductive ones. Kinfolk are defined as “parts of one another to the extent that what happens to one is felt by the other, such that we live each other’s lives and die each other’s deaths.” 

I’m left wondering about the aspects of material determinism, that play a huge role in population dynamics, and how imaginations must go beyond just envisioning how we relate to one another, but literally how we make our living and what strategies we use for subsistence. If agricultural subsistence innately charges humans to reproduce beyond the carrying capacity of their locales (as seen with every full-time agricultural society), than we must address that root catalyst, rather than just overlaying a narrative, or relying solely on a narrative, to counter-act the physics involved. I see so many solutions that present as “we just have to act nicer to one another” rather than looking at the environmental factors that led us down this path to begin with. Our actions are largely dictated by the way we get our food and interact with ecosystems. Root causes can be alleviated with will power, but never truly solved by them. Essentially what I am saying is that I do not think that culture is above physics. Stories are only possible through the access to the physical resources that bring them to life; a fire needs fuel. A fire will burn until it runs out of fuel.

We need to counter the population explosion with a re-design of our subsistence strategies (which lies at the physical roots: it’s not possible to grow at this rate outside of full-time agriculture) *and* a great re-imagining of kinship, in hand with one another. Domestication is essentially the antithesis of kinship; forcing plants and animal lives into an unequal relationship of servitude for the sole benefit of humans. A return to kinship must be at the root of life: the kin we eat to exist, and how we go about eating them. While it may not be possible to return to hunting and gathering full time for everyone, there are many regenerative forms of subsistence that don’t create the same kinds of population problem (i.e. horticulture & permaculture). As Michell Murphy states, “To be against population is to foster a multitude of ways of living in kinship differently that already exist all around us, as well as to continue to create speculative otherwises.” If you’re looking to approach this highly problematic topic with fresh and truthful eyes, this book is the best resource that I am aware of.

Also, I’d love to chat about this with folks over at the Rewild Forum.

Episode 7: In the Crucible w/ Woniya Thibeault

In this episode I chat with Woniya Thibeault, ancestral skills practitioner and teacher, and recent cast member of the History Channel’s ALONE show. Woniya and I cover a large range of topics, from the challenges of reality TV to how starvation effects one’s body to practical things people can do in this strange time of a global pandemic to wiping your butt with nature’s alternatives to toilet paper. It was a wide ranging conversation, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.


Woniya’s Website

Woniya’s Patreon

Woniya YouTube

Woniya Facebook

Woniya Instagram

History’s ALONE Show


Episode 6: Hunter-Gatherers & the Search for Meaning

In this episode I chat with Dr. Leonard Martin, retired professor of the Behavioral and Brain Sciences Program Psychology program at Georgia University. We talk about the important distinction between what James Woodburn labeled “Immediate-Return” and “Delayed-Return” societies, and how the transition from immediate-return to delayed-return transformed human culture, psychology, and behaviors. Dr. Martin has written several essays on how this transition may have affected our mental health and thoughts. In particular, how has this changed (or created) what seems like an innate human quality, the search for meaning…

Articles by Dr. Leonard Martin

I-D Compensation Theory 

I-D Compensation Reply 

I-D Compensation and Mindfulness

I-D Compensation and Meaning in Life

Wake-up Call from a Close Brush with Death 

Hunters and Gatherers

Book Resources

Limited Wants, Unlimited Means: A Reader on Hunter-Gatherer Economics and the Environment, Edited by John Gowdy

The Lifeways of Hunter-Gatherers: The Foraging Spectrum, by Robert Kelly

The Diversity of Hunter-Gatherer Pasts, Edited by Bill Finlayson & Graeme Warren

The Egalitarians: Human and Chimpanzee, by Margaret Power


Social dimensions of death in four African hunting and gathering societies

Egalitarian Societies, by James Woodburn

Why everything you know about wolf packs is wrong

Episode 5: To Wander With Intention

In this episode I speak with my friend Bartle about her experiences on walkabouts, leading animal processing camps, running, and much more. Bartle’s life is an inspiration to me and many others. If you’ve ever thought about going on long term minimalist, wilderness living experiences, this will definitely appeal to you. I recorded this one a few months back, and Bartle is about to head out on one of her walkabouts (although she decided recently to wait another year to get more funds to do the really big one she mentioned at the end of the interview). So I figured I’d better get this posted to the world before she takes off again.

Follow Bartle on instagram: @bartleemily


Move Your DNA, by Katie Bowman

Born to Run, by Christopher McDougall

Boulder Outdoor Survival School

Tom Elpel & Kris Reed Adult Programs

Episode 4: Complex Contexts with Lucy O’Hagan

Today, my guest is Lucy O’Hagen, the founder and head of Wild Awake! Ireland. I’ve followed Lucy’s work for several years and continue to feel deeply inspired and in awe of the programs that she creates. I’ve been wanting to interview Lucy for some time now. Firstly to elevate her school, but also, while our organizations are similar in style and content, the cultural and historical context in which they sit is very different. This is something I find interesting and wanted to know more about. If rewilding is to be widely appealing, we need to understand the multiple contexts that make it look and feel different so that we can understand how to appropriately rewild in these contexts. One that stands out to me and is colonialism and how it affects different groups and demographics around the world, and how this influences rewilding. This is an area that Lucy and I explore in this episode. Enjoy!

Lucy O’Hagen

WildAwake! Ireland (website) http://wildawake.ie/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wildawakeireland/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/NatureskillsIreland/

Lucy’s Inspirations:

Last Child in the Woods by Richard Louv http://richardlouv.com/books/last-child/

Forest School https://www.forestschoolassociation.org/what-is-forest-school/

8 Shields http://8shields.org/about/

Circle of Life Rediscovery (https://www.circleofliferediscovery.com/)

Woodcraft School (https://www.woodcraftschool.co.uk/)

Lynx Vilden (https://www.lynxvilden.com/)

Braiding Sweetgrass https://milkweed.org/book/braiding-sweetgrass

Links to add to our conversation:

What is Settler Colonialism?


Irish Travelers Q&A: What does ethnic recognition mean for Irish Travellers?


Original Instructions


Tending the Wild by M. Kat Anderson


The word-hoard: Robert Macfarlane on rewilding our language of landscape


Irish Language Learning Game

Irish Gods & Mythology



Episode 3: Food for Thought with Nora Gedgaudas

The best case scenario for healthy, longer lives is when our DNA matches the environment we are born into and live in for the duration of our lives. Sadly, our culture and environments are so far away from what we evolved to be adapted to and our health has suffered tremendously. While rewilding is not just a diet plan, it is important to study and understand the baseline needs of our bodies, so that we can carefully measure the trade-offs of living in a very different world from that of our most recent ancestors.

To learn about the most adapted food expectations of our bodies, I turned to the expertise of Nora Gedgaudas. Nora is a leading expert in understanding the evolutionary expectations of the human body, and specifically, the human brain in terms of diet. As a neuroscientist, she has a unique understanding of the brain and body, and how to eat in a way that is more aligned with the expectations in our DNA. Today, Nora and I will specifically be talking about the history of *what* humans have eaten and how that has shaped our bodies expectations in terms of nutrition. Toward the end of the conversation we spoke a little bit about what we can do to eat this way today.

Nora’s Website

Nora’s Books
Primal Body, Primal Mind
Primal Fat Burner
Rethinking Fatigue
E-Course: Primal Restoration


The Expensive-Tissue Hypothesis: The Brain and the Digestive System in Human and Primate Evolution by Leslie C. Aiello

Man the Fat Hunter – Miki Ben-Dor

Stable Isotopic Analysis Research of the Max Planck Institute of Evolutionary Anthropology Dr. Michael Richards

Weston Price Foundation

Eat Wild

Photo Credit: Prof saxx

Uncivilize Podcast Interview

Episode 2: Rewilding & Anarchy with Kevin Tucker

Anarchy is a central component to the rewilding movement, and as such it is here that I wanted to place my first interview. Today I’m chatting with Kevin Tucker, an anarchist writer, editor, and publisher who has been writing about primal anarchy for over twenty years. He is the author of the book For Wildness and Anarchy, which has been foundational to anarcho-primitivism and primal anarchy. He is relentless. He runs a publishing company, hosts a podcast, writes extensively well researched books, publishes Wild Resistance (a primal anarchy journal twice a year) and somehow raises two children all at the same time. Kevin is both a friend and colleague who continues to inspire and inform the work that I do. I’m excited to share the interview here with you.


Follow Kevin on Social Media:

Follow Kevin’s Work:
Kevin Tucker Website
For Wildness and Anarchy Book
Primal Anarchy Podcast

Items mentioned during our conversation:
Interview with John Zerzan
Mutual Aid – Petr Kropotkin
“Woman the Gatherer”
Domestication of the Human Species – Peter Wilson

Discuss Rewilding With Us!

Want to discuss anything you heard on the podcast? Follow this link to the Rewilding Podcast discussion page!

Header Image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/eflon/3261945045/

The Rewilding Podcast Episode 1: Introductions

In this introductory episode, I talk about my story: who I am, where I came from, and what rewilding means to me. This episode sets the context in which the rest of this podcast will reside.

Want to discuss anything you heard on the podcast? Follow this link to the Rewilding Podcast discussion page!

Rewild or Die by Urban Scout (My moniker)
Press Interviews over the last 13 years
Tom Brown Jr.
Ishmael by Daniel Quinn
Coyote Tracks
Jon Young’s 8 Sheild’s Mentoring
Wilderness Awareness School
Green Anarchy Magazine
Rewild Portland